Lawrence Rothman on Their New Album, ‘Here Lives Love/Sawdust to Stardust,’ a Growing Legacy Producing Other Artists, and the Talk with Bowie That Changed Everything

Music

Throughout the current AmericanaFest in Nashville, Range took a seat to talk with Rothman not practically concluding the productive trilogy with “Here Lives Love/Sawdust to Stardust” however about an abundant and growing side profession producing other artists, consisting of Amanda Shires’ 2025 confessional album “Nobody’s Girl” (and “Take It Like a Man” before it), Maggie Rose’s lively “Half Moon” and Tift Merritt’s return, “Sugar.” When Rothman starts the brand-new album asking the most core concern of them all, “Why am I breathing?,” any of these albums– the ones produced for others, and their own brand-new one– provides a significant and deserving sufficient response.

To ask very first about your production work: You deal with a great deal of terrific singer-songwriters, and there’s a great deal of adaptability in the kinds of noises you get with various individuals. Nobody would error an Amanda Shires record for the Maggie Rose album you simply had actually come out.

I do not understand if it’s the Gemini in me, however I’ve enjoyed many various kinds of music. my whole life. To produce and to be able to include noises, textures and treatments to things that are in a brand-new design every month– due to the fact that I produce something when a month– assists keep me alive, truly, and eep my motivation up. Amanda Shires makes poetic tunes that are simply these heartbreaking stories, performed in a manner in which’s so elegant, and like Leonard Cohen. It is such an excellent thing to immerse myself in, due to the fact that I enjoy unfortunate music, and she certainly makes some perfectly unfortunate tunes. You can do that for a while and you’re in that zone, and after that it’s fantastic to be able to pop out and do something like Maggie Rose, where it’s more of a celebratory thing of being a mom and this brand-new phase of her life, where it’s about a strange youthfulness in the energy a household returns to you. T hat record feels really celebratory, and really various than the Tiff Merritt record I made previously in the year, which was more of a take a look at the life of an artist, just like myself– what I’ve gone through and what she went through, in a heavy lyrical mode.

I’m a little Method when I produce. I need to seem like I’m in the band. As a delicate artist yourself, when you’re with all these artists and you’re getting Method with them, you can lose yourself in it and begin to feel a bit like you’re handling everyone’s injury. It’s great to be able to go among these groups of artists that I work with who informing their realities and spilling their drama and their unhappiness. They’re all such terrific individuals that when you leave those sessions, it’s practically like you’ve been acting in a movie, weeping and singing and chuckling with them, and after that at the end of it, you can leave like yourself once again. And I seem like all those artists that I deal with, when they’re done, it’s like a tidy reset. They got it out of them. I got it out of myself. It’s like a bit of a satanic force that you dance with, when you’re producing things.

How do you make yourself “part of the band”? Is that actually through playing an instrument as part of the sessions?

Like I stated, I like to be immersive with it, and I do not wish to seem like I’m the manufacturer behind the glass. I stand in the recording space, not the control space, when I’m producing. If a vocalist’s singing, I’m ideal beside them. In some cases I’ll take my t-shirt off and dance. I’ll do whatever it requires to get it to have an energy. Due to the fact that there’s something so scientific, practically like a physician, about lagging a glass, and they’re in the range– it simply feels odd to me. I’ve never ever been one to not simply immerse myself physically in the space. If I’m not playing something, I’m tapping something or simply getting individuals to start.

You’ve talked with taste having ladies’s voices by yourself albums…

I like to frame my voice. My voice is so low that a female’s texture, or that variety, constantly matches my voice well. For this record, I have Amanda and Jillian Jacqueline and Katie Pruitt singing on some tune, and I got to sing with Sarah Klang (as a duet on “A Fire Test”).

The artists we were simply discussing you producing just recently– Amanda, Maggie, Tift– are all ladies. Not that would be entirely your focus, however do you discover you gravitate towards ladies artists more than others?

Yeah, I do not take a look at it like that at all. I need to simply enjoy the music. And I’m refraining from doing producing to end up being a millionaire of any sort. I’m doing it since I wish to assist this vocalist reveal what they’re performing in a manner in which seems like, are we forging ahead in some instructions that’s forward? And with Americana music, amusing enough, I believe it’s the most forward-thinking music of any category today– due to the fact that you can be R&B, you can be rock ‘n’ roll, singer-songwriter, folk, you can even be a bit jazz, and it’s all accepted in the neighborhood of Americana. And I believe the term Americana is being transformed as various than what it began as. and now it’s the location for individuals who wish to take all the designs that have sort of, I think, started in America or end up being more mainstream through American culture, and mashing them approximately be something that’s distinctively its own.

I believe a few of the best and most amazing music I’ve heard in the last 5 years has actually come out of the Americana quote-unquote “scene.” I discover myself working and producing a lot of artists that are under that umbrella. To me, they’re likewise all, like, either a rock ‘n’ roll artist or somebody like Maggie Rose, who is like soul satisfies singer-songwriter. When you’re asking me about, is it females, or … For me, I believe right now it’s that it has to resonate in a method that’s pressing category forward. And if we’re gon na still utilize those category terms like Americana, pop and alt rock, Americana is the location where I seem like you can sort of be anything. I would not be surprised if someone put out a space-dance-country-folk record. You can type of be anything in it and you’re invited into the celebration, as long as the important things that connects it together is the music’s played by genuine individuals. There’s terrific lyrics, whether it’s storytelling or more abstract. And I’m not anti-AI, however I seem like offers the identity to Americana music is that human beings developed all of it. It’s the human touch music.

You have actually concerned feel really comfy in Americana, though it’s not where you began. And with your brand-new album being quite acoustic, you’re quite in the pocket with that at the minute.

Yeah, the last 3 albums, I’ve practically concentrated on that, which’s been the neighborhood that’s invited me, so it’s the one I wish to recognize myself with and assistance. If I desire to go make a jazz record for the next one, I’m gon na go make it. If it’s called jazz or Americana, I do not actually care. It’s shown up a lot that it’s been tough to identify what I do, which’s great with me. I enjoy Beck, and Beck’s difficult to identify. David Bowie, I do not even understand what the label of that music would be, you understand?. He began as a folk artist, and after that was a rocker, and after that was a pop star, and after that was sort of an abstraction star.

You satisfied and talked with David Bowie, and he had an effect on your believing about things,?

I fulfilled David Bowie early on when I was beginning my solo profession. I ‘d dissolved my band with my bros called Living Things that we were providing for 13 years, and I was tired. I ‘d fulfilled David Bowie, and I had a tune that I had actually simply composed called “Montauk Fling,” and I revealed it to him. I stated,” Hey, I believe I’m beginning this brand-new chapter of my musical presence, and what do you consider this?” Since it was extremely various from what I ‘d done before. And he listened to it, and provided me some fantastic guidance. He was similar to, “The chorus that you’re singing about there, and the verses, do you imply it?” And I’m like, “Well, yeah!” And he’s like, “But what’s the suggesting of it?” I had to discuss it to him. And he’s like, “Well, I do not believe you strike the significance of it. You require to be more direct.” Therefore I returned in and reworded that chorus, and I was extremely direct. The chorus (wound up being) “Why do you wish to fuck like complete strangers?” I solved to the significance of what I was attempting to state. That was a truly intriguing workout from such an icon, since I had never ever actually looked at David Bowie’s lyrics as I do Leonard Cohen’s per se.

At that point he will do “Blackstar,” and when you listen to that record, it’s quite him, autobiographical. He’s about to pass away. Therefore I think he was at a point of what is the significance of all of what we’re carrying out in art?– and he was analyzing it in his own self with “Blackstar.” And I composed that down in my journal at the time: “David Bowie states, ‘What’s the significance of all of this?'” It led me to begin composing this tune called “Glory,” which was on my album “Good Morning America.” A great deal of individuals reacted well to it, so when I got to this brand-new record, I wished to keep exploring what Bowie had actually stated with that. I began the record with the tune “The Meaning,” since it’s like, what is the significance of me putting out music, or any of us putting out music? It’s really ego-driven. As an artist, you’re out there playing rock star– or you’re not, which’s playing rock star. If it’s all efficiency, what is the significance of doing any of it? With him, I seemed like I got to an outcome of, like, the significance of doing any of it is simply to inform some type of strong story that someone can comprehend, that when they’re going through it, they can go, “That’s pulling me through this difficult time.”

For Bowie with “Blackstar,” certainly that was cathartic to discuss death since he was passing away. With “The Meaning,” I discussed, why am I putting this album out today? Why am I doing this music? I’m doing it since it’s my primal scream. It’s my treatment.

You are calling this album,” Here Lies Love/Sawdust to Stardust, “the conclusion to a triology, which started for you with 2021’s “Good Morning, America “and had its middle part with 2024’s” The Plow That Broke the Plains,” which we formerly talked about for Variety. Why do you think about them as a trilogy?

Henry Miller is among my preferred authors of perpetuity, and his trilogy called “Sexus, Plexus and Nexus” remained in my mind my entire life. I believed, “One day I wish to make a record that has the sensation of that, as far as narrating throughout 3 pieces of work.” When I went into the very first record, “Good Morning America,” that was the tidy slate. I stated to myself, “I’m gon na do this trilogy now, beginning with the South,” and it brought me to Nashville. I understood that I wished to return to letting tunes and lyrics be the leading edge of what I was doing as an artist; less so, production, since I had actually been doing records where I felt the production was sort of the focal point. I had actually gotten to a phase in my life where storytelling and the lyrics and providing things that were the real me. At the start of my profession, I was 9 various individuals. I utilized prosthetics and I had 9 various names and I carried out various shows as various changes, as I called them. I did that for 7 years and it type of simply surpasses my entire way of life. At the top of that 2021 record, I desired to get back to “this is what I’m going through” on the page with some chords behind it.

The start of the trilogy was with that concept, and I linked with Lucinda Williams, who has actually been a substantial impact on my life on every level. On that record, she sang with me on a tune called “Decent Man,” which brought me to Nashville. I ‘d come here as a kid to record, I fell back in love with the city and the scene, and after that record simply sort of determined where I was gon na go. I began composing more tunes from that record that appeared on the last record, “The Plow That Broke the Plains,” and after that a few of those tunes I composed throughout that duration have actually appeared now on this one. I restored a few of the very same partners throughout the 3 records. Katie Pruitt is on the very first one, and now she’s on the last one with me. Amanda Shires is on all 3. And Jason Isbell is on the last one and the brand-new one. We composed a tune called “Nothing Like Shakespeare” together in the very same 3 hours that we composed a tune off my last record called “Poster Child.”

Both of those tunes, “Nothing Like Shakespeare”and”Poster Child,” sort of inform my origin story.”Poster Child”informs the story of what I went through as an artist at a young age, being signed at 8 various significant labels and getting dropped and getting signed once again, and them sort of utilizing my story as fodder for press and things like that, and how I seemed like I got a bit benefited from.”Nothing Like Shakespeare”is how I got to L.A. to get that very first record offer. I coped with this woman who was the puppy love of my life, and we separated when we got to L.A. In the lyric, I state,”I took the bus, she took your home,”since that’s what actually occurred. I got a brand-new record handle a band with my siblings, and I’ll always remember the bus bring up at our home, and I brought out whatever I had, and it was done.

That’s the backstory with the trilogy scenario. I hope one day individuals have the attention period to sit with it and listen from tune one, which was “Thrash the West” on that very first record in 2021, to the last tune on this record, which is “Sawdust to Stardust.” Due to the fact that essentially that is the opening and the ending of this sort of filmic record that I’ve made that informs my total their adult years story of the trials and adversities I went through and how I entered music.

Is it a cathartic story, general?

You understand, it’s been an agonizing experience remaining in music, I’m not gon na lie. It’s something that I can’t live without. Each time through the years that I’ve gone “I quit,” the next early morning I get up and I’m at the piano or guitar. My partner makes fun of me about it since I quit, like, once a year. I can’t get away from it. I’ve been on phase playing music because I was 8 years of ages; got my very first record offer at 16. And it has more to do with the act of development than it relates to the popularity or the fortune. I constantly state to my spouse, “You can’t have a little hallelujah without a little hell.”

I’ve been on this journey a very long time, and I’ve never ever gotten well-known, which’s never ever been my objective. There’s a great deal of expectations you receive from relative and things like that of like, “Why do not I see you on late night television?” Or “Why aren’t you over here on the radio?” That’s part of what I call the tension swimming pool of making art, is the expectations of your audience, of your household, of your good friends. For me, art’s constantly had to do with the act of development. I do not actually appreciate who likes it or who does not. There’s lots of people who just like my very first album that I did, which was really indie pop, and all this more recent singer-songwriter things, they do not like. I lost most likely thousands and countless fans, however I do not care. It’s not why I’ve entered this. … When you’re in the grace seat as an artist, and there’s all this expectation, regardless if you’re popular or not popular, however you constantly have a fan base. And I simply discover I need to remain real to myself, and with that brings a great deal of hell, you understand?

I do not believe I can actually compose stories about other individuals. Unless it’s a buddy of mine and I’m observing it, it needs to be something linked to me. Those kinds of authors that can simply sort of observe from afar and discuss it, that to me is more like work, and I can do that for other individuals, due to the fact that I compose a lot for other individuals. For me, when I’m composing my own tunes, if there’s not some weight behind it that’s resonant with my genuine life, I feel like it’s empty words. It’ll constantly be autobiographical, I believe. Ideally, next time, I’m believing it’s gon na be pleased. Perhaps I’ll have my Bobby McFerrin minute, you understand?

Returning to the tune “The Meaning,” a news release stated you were contributing profits to the Trevor Project. Why that cause?

I’m doing a part of my entire album for it, however for that a person tune, I’m providing the complete. If let’s state it got synced in a motion picture or something– which is ideally what will occur; Madi Diaz and I initially composed it for a film that got shelved– I’m providing the complete cost to the Trevor Project. You understand, maturing being torn apart to pieces daily, it’s part of why I transferred to L.A., due to the fact that it was a bit more appropriate to simply be yourself. I feel like I desire to support what they’re doing as much as I potentially can. I’m not an abundant individual, however, I do put out art, and I can manage to assist in the manner in which I can assist, which is through my art, essentially. And I’ve had a great deal of individuals connect to me given that (the tune browsed the web). It’s ticking package where someone will listen to it, they’re having a bad day, and it’s raising them. I felt like that’s a suitable tune for that cause, due to the fact that a lot of those kids are actually going through it, and the tune mirrors that there’s hope, you understand? I went through it, and I’m still here. And I’m happy I did. I discovered significance in my presence of why I was a bit various maturing than everyone else. That produced who I am today, which is entirely special. In the past, individuals badgering my physical look utilized to eliminate me. Now I take all that and I simply put it in a tune. That’s the significance of me being a little bit odder than everyone else.

You appear like a rock star now, however if that’s how you looked maturing, there are factors to comprehend why that may not have actually been the popular thing. Missouri is not the rock star scene.

It was a great deal of shit. You understand, my mommy was constantly the kind of individual where it’s like, “Be you. You’re a person. Be yourself.” And I might use a gown; I might use a stetson and no t-shirt with cut-off jean shorts if I desired. She didn’t offer a shit. I might put makeup on, do whatever I wished to do, so I was constantly very eccentric. At that time, the word everyone would utilize was “androgynous.” That was how I was specified in the ’90s maturing, resembles, “Oh, that’s the androgynous kid.” Maturing in Missouri, and you get a great deal of heat for being not a professional athlete or a minimum of dressing like a professional athlete.

To inquire about another tune on the brand-new album, “Worn Out Woman”– was that motivated by anybody in specific?

I’m thankful you raised that a person. No one’s inquired about that, which is among my preferred ones. It’s about my better half (Floria Sigismondi, referred to as the writer-director of”The Runaways”and lots of video returning to the early ’90s). She’s a director and professional photographer, and she’s been doing it expertly for about 35 years, and is extremely effective at it. She really matured in a time when there were no ladies directors, and pertained to deal with individuals from Bowie to Rihanna. As time went on, I might inform that the weight of misogyny in business of movie was striking her tough. and one night she remained in the procedure of making her approaching film and a great deal of things was being tossed at her. Her mom was passing away. I sat at the piano and began to come up with that, and I kept it in my back pocket. I got together with an excellent songwriter called Amy Wadge (referred to as the co-author of Ed Sheeran’s “Thinking Out Loud”), who came by to my home the next week. She resembled, “Let me hear it,” and later, she resembled, “I’m gon na cry. That’s me.” Therefore I stated, “Well, let’s compose that. Let’s end up that.”

Amy’s got a record coming out, too, and she’s about the exact same age as my spouse. She was informing me the parallel story of how she’s been the head of the household, or the light bearer, which’s the exact same with my better half. My partner matured with her sis and her moms and dads, and she resembled the moms and dad. Which, blended with being a lady director in Hollywood, is extreme. She paradoxically directed 3 episodes of “The Handmaid’s Tale.” And she did this thing for Sigur Rós where it resembled gas masks and art sort of ended up being truth. She resembled, “I do not understand about that tune. I do not desire that to become my truth, (that) I’m broken.” I’m like, “No, no! We’re simply doing the primal scream. We’re simply shouting out the bad vibes on it and now it’s gone. Now you’re not broken …” I informed her, “I believe a great deal of other ladies will feel comparable and see themselves in it.” It’s a testament.

About another brand-new tune, “A Word’s a Weapon”– was that triggered by modern discourse?

It’s a stating that I’ve stated my entire life, really. I would simply resemble, your words are weapons and they go cut through me like a knife. I do not understand why it never ever struck me to compose it in a tune. The political state that we’re in right now is so packed and so substantial and so even in some cases even beyond my understanding. The something I understand for sure, specifically in the United States of America, is that individuals can harm each other, like on steroids, 10 times more, by the things that they state than really pressing them down the stairs. It’s actually tough in some cases to clean off what someone stated to you, due to the fact that it cuts more difficult than a punch or a fall or perhaps getting stabbed. It’s simply something that actually emotionally modifications you. And the method Americans speak with each other is so rancid and disgusting. I ‘n this nation, I believe everyone simply requires to clean their mouths off with soap and get some books and simply relearn how to speak with one another.